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Unresolved issues...WTF...!!
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Monday, August 31, 2009
Karin (8/31/2009 12:03:34 PM): where are you / where have you been? ...can you come play?? :}
Later...
Jeff (8/31/2009 3:34:17 PM): Hey Karin. I'm sorry I receded here. I've got some relationship stuff here that I thought was pretty well squared away, but I'm now realizing that it's still up in the air. I need to resolve that before getting to know someone new. I'm sorry, but will track you down (assuming you're available and interested then), if and when I get things squared away. Again, I'm sorry - it seemed like we could have fun together.
Later...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:13:20 PM): Ah...I am sorry to hear that you have unresolved issues...you're breaking my heart!!! hmmm...but, I understand. Hope you get everything sorted out...and, I am interested in you
Karin (8/31/2009 4:14:14 PM): I am also a good...and somewhat non-opinionated friend...if you need just that...and you can feel free to IM if you simply want to chat (in an innocent way...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:21:13 PM): Hi, Karin...I'm sorry for my retreat...!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:21:29 PM): I think I get it...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:21:44 PM): sure...and it was sweet of you to be so understanding...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:22:01 PM): I knew I should have tried to see you...like 2 weeks ago
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:22:38 PM): yeah...well...I was still struggling a bit then...but...thought I was through...there...
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Hmmm....I think that Jeff is likely humming a wedding march to himself at this juncture...LOL...and no doubt he is blissfully happy...despite his declaration of "I was struggling a bit."
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Karin (8/31/2009 4:23:17 PM): I really am sorry...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:23:19 PM): I mean...frankly...if I hadnt had some concerns about whether it was entirely finished...I mighta pushed to see you even sooner..!
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:23:32 PM): I think Im less patient than you....lol
Karin (8/31/2009 4:24:28 PM): ah...was wondering, but thinking that you were just "giving me space"...ah...sigh... :{ this is sad...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:25:17 PM): awww...well...Im sorry...but...I really was yearning to meet you...too...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:25:49 PM): although...frankly...I was pretty interested in seeing what a kiss from you was like...sigh...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:26:17 PM): you are the first man that I've met in a long while that really got my interest...this is what tragedies are made of...Yes, I KNOW the kiss would have been amazing and wonderful...you can still have that kiss...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:26:47 PM): I am pretty damn sure it woulda too...I really do have a strong intuition...about that...and you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:27:06 PM): are you gonna e-mail me one..?? it's not entirely the same..!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:27:33 PM): well, nah...that's something that would require lips on lips!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:27:44 PM): I agree...sigh...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:28:36 PM): but, if things do not work out...I'll be around...at least for a short while
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:29:08 PM): thanks...I appreciate that...and I will definitely look for you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:29:24 PM): I do think we would have an interesting time…!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:30:04 PM): there are a fee guys who want to go out with me...not sure yet if I want to pursue any of that...keep me posted by letting me know that things are working out for you...or not
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:30:49 PM): k...will do...course...Im gonna be jealous if someone else gets you in his arms..!!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:30:58 PM): hmmm, can't spell any better now either!!! ha! that's me I'm referring to...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:31:12 PM): ah...didnt notice...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:32:07 PM): I thought you were referring to "few"...rather than "fee"...I really didnt think you were paying for an escort....!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:32:09 PM): ...well, again, I do have a thing for you...so maybe I'll indulge myself, but won't be in anyone's arms for the time being...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:32:25 PM): I understand......
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:33:08 PM): course....you were killing me with pics of your red shoes...and painted toenails......
Karin (8/31/2009 4:33:39 PM): I'm...a bit stalled now...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:34:07 PM): I am sorry...I shoulda let you know as soon as I saw things dragging on for me...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:34:13 PM): you are funny!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:34:27 PM): why is that funny..??
Karin (8/31/2009 4:34:57 PM): sorry, was making that reference to the pics...no problem, life is strange at times...can I ask you a question?
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:35:17 PM): sure...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:36:04 PM): is this a long term relationship that you've been in? and how long?
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:36:48 PM): it is... I've gone out with her... for a couple years now... on and off... more ons than offs though, actually...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:37:17 PM): just curious...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:38:03 PM): we...have... some issues...I suppose... but... somehow she ends up back in my life... whenever we break up...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:39:00 PM): hmmm...I usually give great advice...but not in this situation...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:39:40 PM): yeah... you may lack a bit of the usual objectivity...... but… I'm not really sure what to do...myself...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:40:14 PM): again... the relationship is quite frankly not the relationship of my dreams... but...who knows whether such relationships really exist...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:41:08 PM): right, no objectivity on my part here...but if I were being objective, I'd tell you to try to work it out...(not exactly in my best interest...but...don't want you to forget about me)
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:41:41 PM): I don't think that I could forget you...no matter what happens...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:42:18 PM): well, I hope we get to meet and have that long kiss...but you need to do what's best for you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:42:46 PM): dear....you are not....the only one..!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:43:14 PM): well, hang onto that thought!!! 'cause I miss you already!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:43:45 PM): awwww... I miss you too...and am already regretting that I didnt beg you to meet me already...!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:44:07 PM): wonder if that kiss mighta resolved things for me..???
Karin (8/31/2009 4:44:08 PM): well, I'd be happy to meet you for dinner tonight...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:44:54 PM): Id love to... but... that doesnt work... unfortunately...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:45:03 PM): ah...too bad
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:45:40 PM): I mean...I did sit here for a second and wonder... could I steal out and meet you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:46:04 PM): probably not the circumstances to meet you under...I guess...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:46:34 PM): well, being the devil's advocate that I am, I'd of course say YES, you should meet me...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:47:20 PM): well...being the intrigued guy I am...Id say of course... I still wanna meet you... but...Im worried that it would only cause us both more issues...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:47:49 PM): yeah, I have no issues...I think that the issues would weigh heavily on your end tho...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:48:07 PM): and I think the issues would weigh on your end too...!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:48:24 PM): why do you think that?
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:48:42 PM): I mean...if we liked each other...but...I still struggled to end the other situation... probably would be even less fun for you...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:49:43 PM): yep, but on the other hand...it could resolve a bunch of stuff for you...you might not like me(or I you)...and then we could say to ourselves, whew! I dodged a bullet there...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:50:14 PM): I suppose that's true...but...I think that's the unlikeliest scenario of all...frankly...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:50:49 PM): yeah, I'd have to agree with you...it's a case of the "I'll bet you a cookie!"
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:50:58 PM): uh huh....< g >.....
Karin (8/31/2009 4:51:18 PM): well, just know I'm game if you change your mind...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:51:45 PM): I think the more likely scenario... is meeting you is gonna leave me wanting to see you more... but struggling with her and with telling her that...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:52:13 PM): under normal circumstances, I would NEVER try to facilitate the break-up of any relationship...but, I think you've caught me here!!! I do not want you to feel distracted, you should focus on trying to make things right where you are...or however that works out for you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:53:36 PM): well...I am very intrigued by you... but... I’ve had difficulty breaking things off with her in the past... and... dont wanna be in situation where Im more involved with you than we are so far... and yet... finding it difficult to leave her on her own...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:54:37 PM): so... I will try to figure out my life here... before going back into flirtation mode with you..!!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 4:55:25 PM): yep, do you love this person and do you get along? ...I suppose those are some of the determining factors....
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:56:22 PM): those are such simple questions... but... difficult answers... I certainly have some love for her... but… again... it's not the love I always yearned for... and as far as us getting along... I’ve never been with someone who's so different from me...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:57:09 PM): and again....because of the way that I am made up, I really can only focus on one person at a time, so promise me you'll let me know the outcome of your dilemma
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:57:27 PM): absolutely...
Karin (8/31/2009 4:57:39 PM): I can then either move on, or get to know you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:57:56 PM): of course...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:58:29 PM): you know...in chatting with you...I have had several different feelings about you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:59:06 PM): I mean... there have been times when I thought nothing is going to change in my life...and it would be great to have you ...as just a friend...cause I love your attitude....but… there are other times....
Jeff (8/31/2009 4:59:16 PM): when I do wanna devour you...admittedly...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:00:17 PM): ah, can't say that I've had such a strong attraction to a man in many years...kinda felt as though I already knew you...and also knew you to be perfect fit for me...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:01:24 PM): well...I must say...that I have little doubt... that we'd hit if off... now...one can never be certain...and of course... we can't be certain if we'd love each other's kisses... but... again... I suspect we'd really enjoy each other...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:01:53 PM): sanity does rule my world, most people that know me would tell you that aside from all of my other outstanding attributes (lol), that I am also the most sane person that they know...kinda funny...(the kisses would be great...no doubt in my mind)...perhaps, when things settle down for you, we should meet as friends...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:02:49 PM): deal... (though I view that as kinda... worst case..!!)
Karin (8/31/2009 5:02:56 PM): not trying to complicate your life at this time...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:03:09 PM): and Im tryin not to complicate yours either...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:03:25 PM): ...just hoping that you "fall out of love" and then back into that mode with me!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:03:39 PM): awwww...I like the idea..!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:03:45 PM): I know...too many choices for you, eh? okay, one more question?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:05:27 PM): you wanna know what size women's shoes I like the most..??
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:05:51 PM): j/k...sorry... go head...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:06:21 PM): ha!! you have a good sense of humor, despite all this crap...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:06:42 PM): well... one makes one's own crap… to some extent... certainly...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:07:02 PM): I mean... I just am not great about ending relationships... and that's part of my problem here...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:07:15 PM): okay, it this a general relationship issue you are having or something specific?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:08:25 PM): hmmm...both general...and specific.....I mean... it's not really the relationship of my dreams... cause we are very different... on many levels... but... there is a level of comfort and familiarity... but also... if I was to name a specific...frankly Id hafta say...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:10:30 PM): she is the most uncommunicative women I’ve even known... the most unaffectionate women I’ve ever known... and finally... over the last many months frankly... has either lost her desire for me... or her desire... generally...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:11:06 PM): and yet… she clings to the relationship...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:11:17 PM): I am personally hoping for an arranged marriage in my next lifetime, just so I don't have to deal with these issues...lol...have you asked her? ...or is she unwilling to say (communication issues)?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:11:19 PM): Im not sure I understand why... and really cant get her to discuss it...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:12:00 PM): I have asked her… many times...and never gotten much of an answer... it's funny...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:12:02 PM): unless you can get her to communicate, you'll never be able to resolve this...have you asked her to go to counseling...would she be open to that? I know many people "cling" to bad relationships...it's the "the devil you know is better than the one that you don't know"
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:13:03 PM): at the risk of being sexist... I do think women generally are better communicators on relationship issues than men... and while I think Im better in that regard than a lot of men... this again... is the first relationship I’ve ever been in... where I just feel like I get no communication in return...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:14:14 PM): but...I also...as with her... clearly do some clinging here... because of the old..."devil you know"...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:14:28 PM): my day to be unable to type..!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:14:37 PM): you should try asking her to make a list of the things that she has concerns or problems in your relationship...that may be an easier task for her that the actual verbal...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:14:59 PM): you know what she says...when I try things of that sort..??
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:15:06 PM): "you don't trust me"...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:15:17 PM): and I say..."huh"???
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:15:53 PM): and she says... I tell you (when we have these arguments) that I love you... (of course…she would never say that... when we're not in an argument ...)
Karin (8/31/2009 5:16:11 PM): hmmm...don't think that issue’s going away any time soon...if you can't break through that I mean
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:16:25 PM): and in fact... she doesnt even say "I love you" directly in an argument....
Karin (8/31/2009 5:16:31 PM): are you saying that she only says that she loves you when you argue?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:16:48 PM): she will sort of say it in the third person...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:17:02 PM): "I tell you I love you, you should trust me on that..."
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:17:08 PM): and I respond...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:17:40 PM): but... you show me no affection... you dont ever say you're glad we're going out or together... and you certainly give no indication that you’d like some...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:17:52 PM): PASSION..!!! lol
Karin (8/31/2009 5:18:03 PM): yes, I've had that experience myself...people need to hear the words of endearment...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:18:26 PM): exactly...and I really dont think Im a particularly needy guy.....
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:19:04 PM): just...occasionally...say..."Im glad you're in my life"...or occasionally......pinch my butt...or occasionally... say.....let's make love....!..lol
Karin (8/31/2009 5:19:30 PM): right, I don't get that from what little I know about you, but we are all sentient human beings and we all NEED those things...just look around at many couples who have been married for a long time and are not happy...they are VERY easy to spot in public...they don't look at each other, they don't converse much with each other...it's all pretty sad to me
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:20:12 PM): well....that's part of what has kept me where I am... I look around... and think 99% of long term couples I see... are NOT happy....
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:20:32 PM): and Im being very serious about that percentage… or near that percentage...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:20:53 PM): yes, but that does not mean that you need to put yourself in that same situation...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:21:18 PM): and I also am very aware... that even the best couple... is not going to go through... cold patches....
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:21:31 PM): I mean… is not going to avoid... cold patches...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:21:34 PM): I'll be damned if I'll be in another relationship like that...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:21:55 PM): yeah... well... you're probably a LOT stronger than me... in that regard....
Karin (8/31/2009 5:22:23 PM): maybe, but at least two people who can communicate, can get past that...and two people who truly love each other...then it's much easier to get past the tough spots...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:22:44 PM): yep... no doubt...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:23:41 PM): I was miserable for 10 years with a man, and did not want to leave that relationship, despite my misery...when I finally let go, I think that I danced for 2 weeks before I came down off that high!!...I have absolutely no regrets...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:24:11 PM): phone here....
Karin (8/31/2009 5:24:20 PM): again, sometimes sanity has to rule...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:24:53 PM): going to go let the cat out... brb
Karin (8/31/2009 5:25:38 PM): back
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:26:32 PM): k....I just got an email from a big client saying that they had to re-schedule the Benefits Committee meeting because of...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:26:54 PM): conflict with the "corn fest picnic"...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:27:06 PM): ah well... dont wanna miss the cornfest...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:27:20 PM): HA!!! I'm not sure that I've ever heard a better reason...LOL
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:27:40 PM): you wanna meet me at the cornfest picnic..??
Karin (8/31/2009 5:27:49 PM): YEAH!! ...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:28:18 PM): works for me.....!! ...how much more innocent can you get... than the corn fest picnic..!!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:28:26 PM): exactly!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:28:39 PM): Id feel like Lil Abner...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:28:55 PM): I can be Miss Daisy then...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:29:04 PM): mmmmm...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:29:18 PM): will you come in a get up like Miss Daisy..??
Karin (8/31/2009 5:29:30 PM): sure!!! ...for you!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:29:42 PM): of course... I think you could pull it off...!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:29:51 PM): ha!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:30:01 PM): Im not sure I could do the Lil Abner thing tho...!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:30:10 PM): I might hafta hit the gym a bit more...!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:30:14 PM): I've got some decent gams...with all the walking that I do...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:30:33 PM): and exquisite feet... we know that..!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:30:42 PM): why, thank you!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:31:10 PM): yeah...I just don't think that I can let you go easily out of my life...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:31:18 PM): Im trying to avoid focusing on such things...!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:31:28 PM): your feet...and gams...that is...!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:31:34 PM): sorry...back to humor... or something else...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:31:43 PM): oh, I misunderstood!!! ...okay, another question...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:32:28 PM): what did you misunderstand...?? that I was beginning to fantasize about your feet and gams...?
Karin (8/31/2009 5:32:37 PM): yes!! question??? can I ask one more?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:33:01 PM): sure...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:33:12 PM): so do you live together? ...just trying to figure out your situation...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:33:47 PM): no... but...we do spend most evenings together...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:34:02 PM): pretty difficult then...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:34:20 PM): I am at her place...most nights...She has stopped coming to my place... hasnt been there in ... 6 months...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:34:33 PM): you know why??
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:35:07 PM): I could be in my bitchy mood...< g >...and say... cause she's very selfish...?
Karin (8/31/2009 5:35:19 PM): okay, which one of you is having the most trouble with this relationship?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:36:08 PM): me... she seems remarkably content...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:36:09 PM): ...or maybe I should ask, who's having the most difficulty making the big decision?
Karin (8/31/2009 5:36:27 PM): ah, that answer may be you as well...??
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:36:35 PM): definitely...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:37:01 PM): she never really expresses any... unhappiness...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:37:32 PM): oh...I mean...she may have a snide remark that I spoil my kids too much or something... but... never... about the heart of the relationship...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:38:16 PM): well, you need to work this out and make a decision to either stay for the long haul, or cut bait and run...sorry, I have a tendency to simplify life down to the most basic denominator...just because "it is what it is..."
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:38:51 PM): yeah...and I tend to obsess at times over shades of grey... unfortunately...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:38:58 PM): you appear to have a passive-aggressive thing going...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:39:05 PM): when really it probably is black and white...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:39:15 PM): no doubt about the passive aggressive thing...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:39:54 PM): do you feel like your space is getting smaller and smaller?? ...as opposed to being able to stretch and feel free...within the relationship?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:40:55 PM): I do feel my space is getting smaller... perhaps cause of the fact that Im rarely home any more...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:41:32 PM): you two are going to (figuratively) kill each other... by diminishing each other's "life force"
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:41:52 PM): course... even when Im home...it's not like I go out with other people or anything... I mean... when I am home... Ill get a flurry of calls from her...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:41:56 PM): do you understand what I'm saying? ...hmmm, so she feels that something is not right as well...?
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:42:31 PM): probably just to check up on me...< g > ... while... when Im at her house... often I go in one room… and she goes in another... and we often say nothing to each other.....all night...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:42:51 PM): this is a sad situation...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:42:55 PM): and then we certainly dont snuggle at night...!!! lol
Karin (8/31/2009 5:43:24 PM): ah, you already know how I feel about those issues...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:43:42 PM): yeah...well...I dont know..maybe Im painting a bleaker picture than is there.....I mean...Im not terribly happy... but...at the same time...I do clearly want your sympathies...too...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:44:17 PM): no, no sympathy...it just makes me think of all of the relationships that are like that...I can't keep my hands off, nor can I stop communicating...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:44:55 PM): well... again... I think ya need to keep hands on...!! and I think ya need to communicate...but...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:45:02 PM): especially with the significant other...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:45:17 PM): it clearly can be difficult...to be on exactly the same page... on those things...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:45:54 PM): I mean...I suppose I’ve been with women... where I’ve thought... she's too touchy feely... and too ...chatty.....But now... I have the total opposite..!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:45:54 PM): I'm not sure that I'm being helpful here, but that is my intention
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:46:16 PM): thanks...I do appreciate your thoughts... and concerns...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:46:18 PM): right, we all like our own space - I understand the too much as well, there needs to be a good balance that keeps partners intrigued...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:47:28 PM): yes... and though Id like a healthy active physical relationship with my significant other... that probably doesnt mean making love 15 times a day...!! lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:47:47 PM): I hate when it goes over 14...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:47:55 PM): < g >...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:48:19 PM): (yeah, I KNOW!!!) lol...of course but there are many other points of interest that can be explored too!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:48:40 PM): exactly.....even just a hug…or a kiss...or a touch here or there......
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:48:59 PM): all those things make for my conception of a healthy physical relationship...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:50:00 PM): right...you know, I am not the best looking girl on the block (tho certainly not ugly by any stretch of the imagination), but I come with mountains of charisma...I'm relatively interesting and funny...everything about life is a balance
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:50:51 PM): no doubt about it....and Im not the best looking guy on the block either...but...my friends would say....fun....some intelligence.......a great deal of empathy.........
Karin (8/31/2009 5:51:59 PM): yes, I believe I already know some of these things about you ...you obviously know that I am a very open person...the more that you try to hide, the more difficult life becomes...back to my "simplicity" philosophy
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:52:30 PM): yep... I agree...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:53:05 PM): well...Ms K... I should probably make one or 2 calls... and then try to get out of here...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:53:31 PM): plus...if I am to be totally open with you... nature calls..!!!!!!!!!!!!! < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 5:53:48 PM): well, I'll be around...(take care of that nature thing!!)
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:54:17 PM): you know....old guys… and their prostate...< g > ...thanks Karin...Im glad we "talked" today...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:54:57 PM): lol ...yes, I know how that is!!! ...any time...on the talking thing...feel free to call me if you need to talk...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:55:11 PM): Id like to hear your voice....
Karin (8/31/2009 5:55:33 PM): same here for yours...work it out...I'll keep my fingers crossed for the best for you
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:56:14 PM): are you talking about me making it to the men's room..?? Im confident I can...oh wait...that's not what you mean...!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:56:36 PM): anyway...thanks again...and I look forward to next time...
Karin (8/31/2009 5:56:38 PM): ha!!! either way...whichever works for you...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:56:47 PM): k...talk to you soon..!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:57:13 PM): yep, we can get to know each other in other ways than romantic, if you're up for it...
Jeff (8/31/2009 5:57:48 PM): Id like that... (of course, Id like ALL ways...but...Id like to get to know you...)...bye..!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:57:57 PM): yep, bye!!
Karin (8/31/2009 5:58:01 PM): for now...
Later...
Karin (8/31/2009 8:23:19 PM): ...for some reason -quite unknown to me- if feel the need to communicate with you...and it's probably better for me right now that you are not online...(since we're switching to the just friends mode for the time being -- or maybe forever, who knows!!??)
Karin (8/31/2009 8:32:51 PM): In many ways I wish that I could help you with your situation, i.e., to actually work through the problems that you are having with your significant other...I'm sure that you know that it's not easy to maintain a relationship - it takes work, every day to keep things interesting...it also takes some occasional time apart...to make you appreciate what you have.
Karin (8/31/2009 8:40:27 PM): okay...now here's my passive-aggressive part...here's a very candid expose about myself...I only get angry once every decade...have not cried about anything except a tear jerker movie...or things someone is supposed to cry about..funerals and weddings, in a good long while...I am VERY easy to get along with...and yes, I am fiercely passionate about and with the people that I love. I am also very protective of the people that I love - I do not like to see those people hurt or unhappy...I also spoil my child, but believe that no child can be truly spoiled, particularly when love is involved...
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:45:53 PM): Hey
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:46:58 PM): You still around?
Karin (8/31/2009 8:47:53 PM): yes...oh-oh... :)
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:48:00 PM): On my blackberry but was reading your notes!
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:48:05 PM): Hi!
Karin (8/31/2009 8:48:07 PM): damn...I thought I could write a manuscript here
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:48:14 PM): Lol
Karin (8/31/2009 8:48:21 PM): indeed!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:48:27 PM): I'm very slow
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:48:38 PM): Typist on here
Karin (8/31/2009 8:49:03 PM): right - well I have more...here it comes
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:49:09 PM): Thanks for your thoughts
Karin (8/31/2009 8:49:14 PM): ...but I don't mean just spoiled by loving them, I include doing whatever I can, in any way that I can for my daughter (staying somewhat within the confines of ethics and morality)...they are our flesh and blood and they deserve to be treated well (my parents taught me that & I took it to heart). I am not trying to "sell" myself to you, I’m simply...
Karin (8/31/2009 8:49:36 PM): ...trying to figure out a fast way to tell you about who I am...
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:50:36 PM): I think you're the most interesting person I've met in years
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:50:39 PM): Or
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:50:48 PM): "ever met"
Karin (8/31/2009 8:50:49 PM): I think the same thing about you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:51:12 PM): Thanks. We do have tons of chemistry
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:51:27 PM): No doubt
Karin (8/31/2009 8:51:28 PM): yes, we do...now what?!
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:52:27 PM): I dunno. Its probably not the right time to meet, I suppose
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:57:39 PM): K ill pour you glass of wine
Karin (8/31/2009 8:57:52 PM): thank god...it's about time...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 8:58:39 PM): Can we get a glass of wine sometime, no matter what we choose to do?
Karin (8/31/2009 8:59:18 PM): yes, definitely! ..I was out walking the dog after our previous conversation, wondering how I was going to extract myself from this situation...and then simply decided that I was not going to extract myself...I'll just wait for you to extract me....
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:00:08 PM): Lol. You may yet extract me!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:00:15 PM): hmmm...I guess that's putting too much pressure onto you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:00:26 PM): So do you like wine?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:00:52 PM): yes, cabernet in particular...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:01:22 PM): So we can get a glass together soon?
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:01:45 PM): I like cab too.
Karin (8/31/2009 9:01:53 PM): oh good!! yes is tomorrow too soon??? ..hey, I can't stop thinking about you... this may be the undoing of me as a being yet!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:02:15 PM): I hope not!!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:02:26 PM): yeah me too...I think that you have turned me into a "love sick" person...it's not a pleasant feeling...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:03:42 PM): So what other things does a bright person resort to? I like a good martini
Karin (8/31/2009 9:03:48 PM): sorry, see how candid I can be...shame on me!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:04:05 PM): I'm glad
Karin (8/31/2009 9:04:06 PM): I like bloody marys, --now you're just torturing me...I also like vodka and bitter lemon...but bars rarely carry bitter lemon any more
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:04:44 PM): Love bloody mary's.
Karin (8/31/2009 9:05:03 PM): yes, that's probably my hard drink of choice
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:05:03 PM): Why am I torturing you?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:05:27 PM): I'm not quite sure...but it goes back to the feeling "love sick" ...hmmm...we should just let that feeling pass on by...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:06:06 PM): I don't know that I want to torture you
Karin (8/31/2009 9:06:33 PM): yeah, I know...I'm sorry, I should not have come out with that bit of information...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:07:03 PM): Course its been all enjoyment for me!!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:07:22 PM): hmmm...you are a bad person...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:07:22 PM): But just a plus to see you
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:07:42 PM): Well only partially bad lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:08:04 PM): I really don't wanna make you unhappy
Karin (8/31/2009 9:08:20 PM): see me??? ...pining away??? (ok - I don't know how to spell that word...don't use it much!!!) I know...I'm not sure that I can say it's not your fault... but I did allow myself to get involved in a cyber thing!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:09:34 PM): Well only cause you're ignoring those guys who want to wine you n dine you
Karin (8/31/2009 9:10:09 PM): yes, that may be so, but I know WHY I'm ignoring them...sigh...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:11:34 PM): So what should we do?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:12:35 PM): I think we should go out...but again, I do not want to make things more complicated for you, so I'm in a quandary...I suppose you are the one who needs to make any and all decisions at this point in time...hey, I love to take control of people's lives...but, that would just be wrong...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:14:01 PM): K ...let's run away for a week ... I wish
Karin (8/31/2009 9:14:48 PM): I'd be happy to run away for a day...could prove to be a "fix" for both of us...and we could walk out being friends...or things could get VERY complicated..then you'd really have to make a decision...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:15:34 PM): Lol. That VERY worries me!!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:16:17 PM): not to worry... I am not a stalker or anything strange. I know how to move on with my life...just hoping that I won't have to...or that I snap out of this - with a "what was I thinking" -or- "oh good, we can be friends" -or- ....well you know the other scenario...but, of course, it's that door "c" that I'd be hoping for...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:19:00 PM): Well, can you deal with meeting for a drink?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:19:11 PM): absolutely, I can...hmmm, but I'll make you hold my han...at least for a minute...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:20:17 PM): If you force me.
Karin (8/31/2009 9:20:25 PM): count on it...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:21:17 PM): But not sure when I can this week unless you wanna meet late afternoon, and then I'd hafta run off to dinner
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:21:44 PM): Or else after the holiday
Karin (8/31/2009 9:22:14 PM): well, I have this Friday off...not sure if that's helpful or not...otherwise, yes, after this weekend
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:23:29 PM): Well if you wanted to get out for couple hours Friday afternoon, be great for me
Karin (8/31/2009 9:23:46 PM): I think that'd be great for me as well
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:24:05 PM): Good!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:24:17 PM): yes, indeed...good! let me know what's convenient for you...I have all day to play
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:25:03 PM): Well we'll figure where and when, but
Karin (8/31/2009 9:25:09 PM): but??
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:26:14 PM): Well I don't like saying but I really don't wanna run into people that I know. I realize that's not so nice
Karin (8/31/2009 9:26:36 PM): I get it...
Karin (8/31/2009 9:26:59 PM): you aren't actually married...are you?
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:27:11 PM): Bo
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:27:16 PM): Or no
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:27:28 PM): < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 9:27:29 PM): good thing...that would be an instant deal breaker for me...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:27:38 PM): Me too
Karin (8/31/2009 9:28:07 PM): okay, well now I'm really nervous!!!!!!!!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:28:14 PM): (kidding)
Karin (8/31/2009 9:28:24 PM): well, a little nervous...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:28:33 PM): Why more nervous?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:28:49 PM): I'm not sure...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:29:00 PM): Ill be nervous too
Karin (8/31/2009 9:29:56 PM): hmmm...I stopped smoking early this year and am fighting not to go to the store...see what you do to me?? it's terrible...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:31:24 PM): Well. You can meet and see no reason to get nervous. Although ill share a smoke with you!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:31:42 PM): okay...a cigar perhaps??
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:31:51 PM): I have occasional smoke
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:32:04 PM): Sure. Whatever
Karin (8/31/2009 9:32:08 PM): we'll be like two kids having a guilty pleasure...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:32:25 PM): We can try
Karin (8/31/2009 9:32:53 PM): yes, I'm still a kid at heart...can't seem to shake that...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:33:13 PM): You n me both
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:33:31 PM): That's a very good thing
Karin (8/31/2009 9:33:37 PM): yes, I spotted that in you too!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:34:06 PM): Yep. I know whatcha mean
Karin (8/31/2009 9:34:28 PM): yep...well I do believe that we'll have a fabulous drink or two together...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:35:10 PM): Well, dear should I let you go from the computer?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:35:32 PM): why would you want to let me go??? you getting cramped fingers on the bb??
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:36:00 PM): I can't wait. And we'll talk before
Karin (8/31/2009 9:36:22 PM): I'll be all yours for a short time then...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:36:48 PM): I wish
Karin (8/31/2009 9:37:14 PM): yes, make a wish...you never know...I'd like to make your dreams come true...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:37:42 PM): Well I've already wished
Karin (8/31/2009 9:37:51 PM): good...me too!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:38:18 PM): And not just holding hands. A kiss
Karin (8/31/2009 9:38:53 PM): yes, a kiss...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:39:39 PM): I already know that I'd love to kiss you
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:40:03 PM): Or strong hunch!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:40:10 PM): yes, I have that same knowledge too!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:40:11 PM): < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 9:40:26 PM): I trust your hunches...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:40:49 PM): Course I wanna know kind of kisses you like
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:41:00 PM): What
Karin (8/31/2009 9:42:18 PM): I'm more interested in the person providing the kisses...then it's all good to me...I have pretty agile lips, I can accommodate many kisses...and in a great variety...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:42:58 PM): I wanna kiss you softly. Linger on your lips.
Karin (8/31/2009 9:43:11 PM): yes, a light kiss to start, but I also like to have a firm kiss...I like to know that I'm being kissed...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:43:14 PM): But that's just me.
Karin (8/31/2009 9:43:29 PM): yeah, I like that...sigh...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:43:45 PM): That is nice to know!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:43:48 PM): < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 9:44:35 PM): I believe that we'll have a good deal of fun...even if it is for a short time...I canNOT wait either!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:45:08 PM): Can I tell you a little fantasy I've had of you
Karin (8/31/2009 9:45:23 PM): I am ALL ears...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:47:16 PM): This really isn't something I think about all that much in past, but I'd like to kiss your feet when you stepped out of shower
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:47:28 PM): Pretty silly I know
Karin (8/31/2009 9:48:01 PM): nope, not something that has ever happened to me, but I find it VERY sexy coming from you! You could turn out to be 70 yrs old & I'd still be enchanted by you...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:48:52 PM): Awww... I'm getting there lol
Karin (8/31/2009 9:49:19 PM): yeah, if we're lucky, we'll all get there...hopefully in a happy and healty state!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:49:44 PM): Exactalee
Karin (8/31/2009 9:49:50 PM): :}
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:50:38 PM): So does it surprise you that I've fantasized about you?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:51:02 PM): nope! what do you think I'm doing on this end???
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:51:17 PM): K... Good
Karin (8/31/2009 9:51:25 PM): we have a lot of chemistry...!
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:51:44 PM): I agree!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:52:03 PM): I just keep thinking about your mom's little saying...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:52:21 PM): < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 9:52:30 PM): think that's going to become a part of my life, explanations and all
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:52:56 PM): Its a good one
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:53:00 PM): < g >
Karin (8/31/2009 9:53:15 PM): yes, the best I've heard in a good long time...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:53:52 PM): My mother would get a kick out of that!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:54:10 PM): see, you have taught me something...via your mother
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:54:42 PM): She taught us both!
Karin (8/31/2009 9:54:52 PM): yes, indeed...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:54:58 PM): Yep
Karin (8/31/2009 9:55:15 PM): well, I think that you are a good man...even in your undecided state...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:55:42 PM): And you're a very interesting woman
Karin (8/31/2009 9:56:16 PM): ha! ...wait till you get to know me better...you don't know the half of it yet...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:56:20 PM): Even in my undecided state
Karin (8/31/2009 9:56:36 PM): sheesh!!! yes...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:56:49 PM): And what is the other half?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:57:11 PM): ah, that's something that one can only find out in person...
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:57:35 PM): Hmm...
Karin (8/31/2009 9:57:54 PM): hmmm...indeed, hmmm
Jeff (8/31/2009 9:58:23 PM): You know that's very intriguing?
Karin (8/31/2009 9:58:54 PM): it's actually meant to be very honest...but intriguing works for me too!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:00:15 PM): You didn't think I would be intrigued?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:01:39 PM): I think I'm being too busy being open and honest, that it did not occur to me that it would be intriguing, but yes, I see that...I try to stay on top of things... but sometimes... I miss the mark a tad...lol
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:02:50 PM): Well maybe the other half that I havent
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:03:13 PM): Seen is something I've not considered
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:03:48 PM): like stamp collecting
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:04:17 PM): Not that that's a bad thing, but
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:04:28 PM): Not my first guess
Karin (8/31/2009 10:04:31 PM): right!!! lol...but don't worry, it's not spanking or ticking...it's just me
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:05:06 PM): Like being passionate?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:05:39 PM): yes, very much so...were you able to read all of my text early on in this conversation??? ...before I knew that you were online...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:06:35 PM): Yes but only for second, didn't have time to study it
Karin (8/31/2009 10:06:40 PM): I am fiercely passionate...life is all about the love we find...for me...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:07:47 PM): Well I noticed what you said about your daughter
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:07:49 PM): And admired
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:07:50 PM): And agreed totally
Karin (8/31/2009 10:08:23 PM): we brought living beings into this world, we need to protect them for as long as we can...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:08:31 PM): It should be
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:08:53 PM): Yep
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:09:17 PM): Then they'll have their crack at doing it for us!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:10:02 PM): right...I did that for both of my parents...not sure how that worked being the youngest child...I guess it was my fate...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:11:19 PM): I have one non-compassionate sib other 2 not bad
Karin (8/31/2009 10:11:56 PM): it helps to have support, but I have no regrets at all...I think that those experiences actually enriched my life
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:12:53 PM): That's good...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:13:09 PM): I'm sure they did
Karin (8/31/2009 10:13:19 PM): you ready to go to bed??
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:13:48 PM): I'm getting there. How bout you?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:14:48 PM): you have totally worn me out today & I think that I'm just ready for some cuddling, a little light back rub, some kisses...sigh....
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:15:42 PM): If I had known that
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:16:20 PM): I'd of said let's stop talking and head to bedroom an hour ago
Karin (8/31/2009 10:16:31 PM): yes, now we're on the same page!!!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:16:59 PM): Would you let me give you back rub tonight?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:17:18 PM): I certainly would...you don't even need to ask...remember...your wish is my command...
Karin (8/31/2009 10:21:05 PM): uh...oh... did I put you to sleep with that? ...or are you on your way over???
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:22:39 PM): Almost there
Karin (8/31/2009 10:23:03 PM): that would be sooo very nice!! you must be driving pretty fast!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:23:05 PM): Sorry got bounced
Karin (8/31/2009 10:23:09 PM): np
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:24:08 PM): So what would you do if I really had headed that way!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:24:36 PM): I'd start cleaning!!! ...but I'd be very happy to see you!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:25:05 PM): Lol...I'd keep my eyes closed
Karin (8/31/2009 10:25:18 PM): I've not had my housekeeper here since the construction started...and I'm not much of a housekeeper myself...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:25:31 PM): But you'd definitely hafta hold my hand then
Karin (8/31/2009 10:25:44 PM): yeah, I think if you got here, I probably would not care much about how the house looked!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:26:07 PM): I would definitely hang onto your hand!!!
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:26:28 PM): Well I know construction can wreak havoc
Karin (8/31/2009 10:26:45 PM): yep...this part will be over soon
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:27:02 PM): Which part?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:27:55 PM): what I really wanted to start on was the upstairs bath, want to knock out a wall, put in a walk-in shower and a Jacuzzi tub, but when I came home from work one day...a part of the front of my house was already torn up, so...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:28:51 PM): Uh huh?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:28:53 PM): this part is an addition
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:29:09 PM): Great!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:29:18 PM): ...but the bathroom was supposed to be the starting point...yeah, it's a good thing that I don't let too much upset me, I was kind of amused by it
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:30:00 PM): Does it ever go smoothly!?
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:30:09 PM): I bet
Karin (8/31/2009 10:30:17 PM): yes, all in all it has gone very well
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:31:01 PM): I'm glad so when do you think they'll finish?
Karin (8/31/2009 10:31:09 PM): ...or maybe it's just because I'm easy to get along with...I like to communicate with the guy that's been doing most of the work...it's more of a collaboration...lol...this addition should be finished by the end of next week
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:31:39 PM): That's important
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:32:00 PM): To get him on your team
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:32:15 PM): Wow great!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:32:15 PM): but then I'm going to have to wait a while for the bath (the part that I really wanted done) because I've overspent on this project...
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:32:40 PM): A bit at a time
Karin (8/31/2009 10:32:58 PM): I'm thinking of hiring another guy for the bathroom 'cause I know he's faster...and also very good...there's the rub for me...I'd like to see it all done at once, but do not want to take any loans to do it
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:34:36 PM): Best way to do it
Karin (8/31/2009 10:34:42 PM): yep
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:35:21 PM): Alright Karin gonna crash here
Karin (8/31/2009 10:35:51 PM): I'm ready too - have a good night
Jeff (8/31/2009 10:36:21 PM): You too - night!!
Karin (8/31/2009 10:36:33 PM): okay - night!
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More tomorrow…
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All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
"The Jeffrey Chronicles: The Span of an Online Romance" is available in hardcover, paperback and as an ebook (Kindle, etc.).
Paperback; $23.99; 771 pages; 978-1-4535-0834-3
Hardback; $34.99; 771 pages; 978-1-4535-0835-0
Ebook; $9.99; 1-4535-0836-8
Copyright 2010 by Karin Castle
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